May 4, 2009

On Playing With the Rough Boys

I don't count it as a bad thing, but sometimes in male social circles, the talk turns them into "rough boys" when assembled in numbers larger than two. I'm never quite sure when the friendly banter is turning into a derogatory view of the Womanhood represented in the room but it will certainly involve ever-cruder references. As women readers well know, you have to put up with a certain amount of rough language when you have entered the verbal Den of Men willingly and they have in gracious turn welcomed you with warmth and good humor. But it will almost certainly move into the slightly alarming, over-the-line-but-we're-all-still-laughing moment. A demure smile, an apologetic excuse and a swift exit are your immediate best allies. To stay a moment longer is to open oneself to dismay at the sheer animal nature of your heretofore harmless bloggers.

Now Cassandra is a woman of fine words and taste, whose writing I enjoy. I am sure she would find me a bit unrefined but hey, I'm a pirate, not a frilly filly with muh thigh-highs and garters a'glarin'. But she's stirred up a kerfuffle with RSMcCain because she walked into a decidedly after-work cigar den of man-talk about boobies and women and politics and said basically, "Oh dear! How rude and unbecoming!"

And you know what? She's right. Except, as Rude and Unbecoming it may have been, it was never presented as a serious political or serious social Ideal. It was boys being boys.

When you find yourself in the Man Cave, you can wade in and trade verbal fisticuffs if you feel up to it, but the Rule is, you have to accept the premise-- in this case it was boobies and the women who pay for them-- not criticize the morality of the premise. Their Cave, their Rules.

It's just rough talk, over-the-top and decidedly a bit of a self-parody. If one had just dropped into the Blogospheric universe, the dismay would be understandable-- pull said bloggeress aside and say, "It's an Ace o'Spades dealio, like Paul Anka, too much to explain. Go catch up and get back to us."

So you can quietly tip toe back out and close the door behind you. But you simply cannot be all aghast and start scolding. Because they will absolutely make you their new target.

And from there, it has devolved into overly-serious and boring boilerplate platitudes from all involved and . . . poof! The fun is taken out of it. Well, actually, I get the idea that McCain is still having tons of fun. Heh.

Would Conservatism be better served without the rude nonsense? I think that's a legitimate discussion. I think certain lines could be toed a bit more genuinely. But, like the teacher that keeps blinking the lights in an effort to get over-excited kids to be quiet, it's pretty fruitless to scold Cave Men when The Most Awesome Subject In The World is being discussed.


Cassandra said...

Joan, you and I will have to agree to disagree :)

I've never seen a guy get so thoroughly worked up over a really short post in which a woman dared to... what? Suggest that words like "slut" and "whore" do little to further his argument?

If he ever manages to address my actual point rather than massaging it until it into the shape of a giant straw boob, maybe I'll get upset.

But I doubt it!

Joan of Argghh! said...

Oh, honey, you know I love you, but you will just never win on the grounds of Virtue when boobies are involved!

Meanwhile, it is great fun to read everyone's comments.

Every thing, in its own time. . .

Van said...

Hmmm... I obviously need to get out more.


You know the wv schtick? I swear to you... I swear it says:

It is alive.

Mike Wilson said...

(heh heh... boobies)

LauraB said...

As someone whose boobs got her to where she is today (okay, that and the brain that hauled them around) - I LIKE when men are men and not some watered down PC creature.

Too, as you say, if you step into that pool (cess?) you will be up to your boobs in it.

My favorite exit was a smirk, a wink, and a sultry, "I'll leave you men to your entertainments..."

Never came off as being a prude, as judging them, nor as being too PC to be considered a member of the club. Rather, I imagine it took them a moment or two to remember their train of thought.

Jack said...

It is good to be a man. I like it.

Attila Girl said...

Eh. Everyone's just talking past each other.

I have no problem with men talking about knockers. I do think it's a bit rich for so called "conservative" men--in particular, those who profess to be Christians--bandy terms like "slut" and "whore" around.

And I'm seeing a lot of verbiage being produced at such a high rate that I'm not really in any sort of position to do a line-by-line reading thereof.

No one's perfect, you know.

QP said...

I'm continually amused by all the parts peeps choose to play; learned about 'em from Berne's Transactional Analysis Theory. My reading is that Cassandra washed Stacy's mouth out with soap (controlling parent); Stacy (played victim & cried fowl) and the game is on.

Joan, terrrrrrific, as usual, job of trying to disarm.

I swear, wv sez "ender", so I will.

Joan of Argghh! said...

There is no proscription against rude language in the Christian dogma, fuckitall! It won't send anyone to hell. . .

But it does make one sound as though they've visited there.